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Ichigo

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:09 am    Post subject: Episode 279 Question Discussion Thread Reply with quote

What are your opinions on why Anime and Manga's unique Style took off in America?

Thanks,

Ichigo
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Codeouran

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think part of the reason it took off was that American companies went, "Look its popular and making money. We should copy that." I can think of a lot of American shows out there that have drawn influences from anime and manga, and the culture surrounding them. Examples:

Kappa Mikey- spoofs various anime characters among other things
Phineas and Ferb-"Summer Belongs to You" the leekspin is referenced

While they don't necessarily copy the art style they use references that people familiar with anime will recognize.

I also think it took off because anime looks pretty. You compare anime with a lot of American cartoons and there is a lot more depth to the art work in anime. While little kids might not care about that as much, if you want to appeal to an older audience you need to have that depth there.
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Lord Canti

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the style is different, that's for sure. I actually wrote an essay for class on why anime is popular in the U.S. I'm not gonna post my whole essay here but I will give my own opinions. Anime has such a wide range of genres that cover just about everyones taste. Whether it's drama, sports, horror, or family oriented, someone will find the show that suits them. And not only does anime have a vast majority of genres, it can also allow us to use our imagination. Not saying that American cartoons don't, but anime has DBZ, Outlaw Star, Cowboy Bebop, Gundam, etc. They allow us to see what else is out there. Anime, to me, feels like it gives us more freedom from our average Saturday morning cartoons. And anime isn't just for kids, adults watch it as well. I'm sure that adults that are seen watching anime in Japan is like nothing. But an adult that is seen watching cartoons here would be seen as strange. But that's how I see it. There could be other factors as to why anime took off so well here in the U.S.
Maybe it was all part of Japans' Keikaku. (TL Note: Keikaku means plan)
I just hope anime continues to do well in the U.S. Now that Miku is starting to appear in the U.S., hopefully this leads to more opportunity.

P.S. I don't really like the look that Toyota or whoever drew Miku (Doubt it was Toyota) Westernization for the lose.


tl;dr Toonami
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Kovaelin

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's pretty simple. As countries become more multicultural, so does the entertainment. It's easier to bring and share new things as the world becomes more connected. Especially with the internet being readily available to everyone, it's not difficult to become exposed to different things that people normally wouldn't get to see on different sides of the pond.
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Neurotic

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I don't claim to know much about this and since I don't live in America, I'm pretty much just speculating but I expect the fact that any anime/manga came over at all has something to do with the close relationship Japan and America have had after WWII. During the post-war boom America started to import a lot of goods from Japan, electronics and such, and found that they sold fairly well. Whenever trade is successful between two countries, some trading of cultures or ideas goes on. I expect one businessman saw some anime and thought it would sell well and that's how the US industry started. That's kinda simplified but it works for this. Also, since the early anime/manga drew heavily from Disney (artists like Tezuka for example), I guess a lot of people assumed it would sell like Disney.

As to why it took off so well, that's more to do with the content. People realised that topics that weren't even being covered in American/European movies, let alone TV or cartoons, were being covered in anime. There seems to be like ten anime for any one topic you could think of, no matter how crazy.

I also think that anime appeals a lot to teenagers and so perhaps it seems like a natural evolution from more basic Western cartoons to anime. There's only so long animated animals are gonna remain entertaining so moving on to animated people in, comparatively, deeper stories seems like a logical step. Anime obviously appeals to teenagers (at least early teens) cos of big fudging robots and big fudging swords and gratuitous violence and other impossibly cool stuff. Then, I guess, some move on to less over the top stuff. How many people started off watching DBZ, Bleach or Naruto and will now never go near a long-running shonen show? I'm definitely one of them.

Fascination with the history and culture probably has a lot to do with it too. On a basic level, I know not of one person who think ninjas aren't cool. Unless they're talking about Naruto ninjas. Same with samurai. Anything with either of those two in, is gonna appeal to a lot of people, whether it's animated or not. Once you watch a show about one aspect of culture you get curious about others so you find other anime about that and it goes from there. Anime is more interesting than reading a huge academic book, right?

Not living in America, I can't comment on how successful it actually is over there but it's talked about a lot more than in Europe. I doubt I could find half of the crappy anime/manga that gets reviewed anywhere in stores. Perhaps companies that are willing to sell at a loss have something to do with why the States has so much of it and why the industry claims it's so poor cos of evil fansubbers.

Well, that bullshit is long enough for now. God bless you if you read all of that.
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maxx627

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am an asian-american actully from Korea. I am a student and sad to say probably the only one in my high school who watches anime (and not just naruto dubs and one piece). I got into anime as a little kid watching transformers and gundam. Alot of american youth actually watches anime or anime influenced american stuff without realizing it.

I forgot about anime and rediscovered it around 7th grade and have slowly watching more and more starting at toonami and naruto. I think that all americans watch anime at one point in there lives. Some peolpe like it some poeple don't. I like it and watch alot of subs. I think some of the voice acting on dubs is bad and hurts peoples first opinons on the genre. After WW2 and currently America and Japan are allies and there cultures effect each other so the media co-exist and influence each other.

So I think children are shown anime and some like it and eventualy watches other anime and some just watch it as a passing cartoon.
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Alga Zero

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would probably say that its probably because anime and manga itself has a huge following and history behind them in japan. I also think that because the stories themselves (at times, not always) have some cultural relevance/significance to Japan, people who are curious to know about other cultures also take a look into the mediums. As far as why something like French comics never took off, perhaps its because nothing really big has come from there in terms of comics. Also, the stories actually end (except for Inuyasha, lolz) which is something that isn't done often in America. People who were looking for an awesome action story that actually ended, could turn to manga and anime. On top of all that, manga and anime both have a rather broad selection of genres: action, romance, superhero, mecha, fantasy, thriller, horror, suspense, comedy, slice-of-life, etc.
As far as American comics go, its pretty much dominated by the superhero genre (Marvel and DC comics) for some odd reason, and there really isn't that much in-between. I guess you could also say that manga fans are looking for a breath of fresh air outside of the 24/7 superhero thing we got going here in the states.
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To put it very simply: it's foreign, it's cool, people loved it, they continued to use it.

It is one of the few things that seems to attract all ages and groups. It's almost like porn (and there is that too!), where if there is something that interests you, it is bound to have been done before.
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RedUnit10

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The simple view would be this:

Interesting-foreign-style = New-way-to-make-money

The marketplace has always been this way, go with whats hip and now and stick to it as long as it brings in the dough. It won't change either, even if free-energy was invented people will still want some form of payment for their services.
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Noir

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giant Robots,violence, pretty girls,awesome action scenes. Anime has a ton of things other types of animation do not offer
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phelan

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Variety of reasons that you can probably write a doctorate thesis on, ranging from the globalization of modern media, to the optimism of 'grass is greener on the other side'.

At the risk of sounding close-minded, to me, western cartoons have always been flights of the fanciful, used by the people to escape reality for a while. It's why I think superhero movies had such a renaissance lately, with the economy in the absolute tank, and political turmoil galore, people look for the single 'hero' character to save the day. If it's not the superheroes, then it's political or social satire, i.e. Simpsons / Family Guy / go further back to printed New Yorker comics. I'm counting Disney films as satire as well...which I could explain but I'd go into a tirade about it.

What makes anime have more staying power is that not only do you have the superhero / shounen anime, you also have every other genre to choose from. The differentiation is obvious down to details like the art style - you will never confuse a shounen manga with, say, a shoujo manga. I think. So there's a little something for everybody. And if you have the power to draw in a really big audience by appeasing small portions of them at a time...viola, popularity increase.

I think the most important thing, though, is that cartoons / anime never had a problem gaining traction in the USA to begin with. The fact that anime looked so different from American cartoons of the 80s and 90s (see: TMNT for example) just made it a natural progression in the unending search for new forms of... entertainment.

Alga Zero - Smurfs, or The Adventures of Tintin were reasonably popular here.

(Great, I wrote an essay for my first post...-_-;Wink


Last edited by phelan on Tue May 17, 2011 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Alga Zero

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phelan wrote:
Variety of reasons that you can probably write a doctorate thesis on, ranging from the globalization of modern media, to the optimism of 'grass is greener on the other side'.

At the risk of sounding close-minded, to me, western cartoons have always been flights of the fanciful, used by the people to escape reality for a while. It's why I think superhero movies had such a renaissance lately, with the economy in the absolute tank, and political turmoil galore, people look for the single 'hero' character to save the day. If it's not the superheroes, then it's political or social satire, i.e. Simpsons / Family Guy / go further back to printed New Yorker comics. I'm counting Disney films as satire as well...which I could explain but I'd go into a tirade about it.

What makes anime have more staying power is that not only do you have the superhero / shounen anime, you also have every other genre to choose from. The differentiation is obvious down to details like the art style - you will never confuse a shounen manga with, say, a shoujo manga. I think. So there's a little something for everybody. And if you have the power to draw in a really big audience by appeasing small portions of them at a time...viola, popularity increase.

I think the most important thing, though, is that cartoons / anime never had a problem gaining traction in the USA to begin with. The fact that anime looked so different from American cartoons of the 80s and 90s (see: TMNT for example) just made it a natural progression in the unending search for new forms of... entertainment.

Alga Zero - I resent that! Smurfs, or The Adventures of Tintin were reasonably popular here.

(Great, I wrote an essay for my first post...-_-;Wink

what do you mean? i mean, i said quite a bit in my last post XD.
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phelan

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As far as why something like French comics never took off, perhaps its because nothing really big has come from there in terms of comics.


And I provided a French and Belgian counterpoint :p
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Alga Zero

Evangelion is cool



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phelan wrote:
Quote:
As far as why something like French comics never took off, perhaps its because nothing really big has come from there in terms of comics.


And I provided a French and Belgian counterpoint :p

I had no idea the smurfs were of french origin (you learn something new everyday XD). As for Tintin, I've never heard of it. Just saying.
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phelan

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just giving you crap for it Very Happy

If you can find copies of it, take a look. I loved reading Tintin when I was younger, and the cartoon was quite faithful to the text.
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Alga Zero

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phelan wrote:
I'm just giving you crap for it Very Happy

If you can find copies of it, take a look. I loved reading Tintin when I was younger, and the cartoon was quite faithful to the text.

evidently so. in any case, no one that I know has heard of it, so perhaps the knowledge of these comics are specific to certain regions of the U.S.
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maxx627

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only time i've heard of Tintin is the Simpsons parody hahahah
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Firest

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I grew up during the Eighties, and it's hard to express how different the rare imported anime shows were.

Here in America we had He-man, officially the gayest action show ever. G.I. Joe with it's laser blasts that never hit anyone except the B.A.T.S. and always parachuting pilots. The original Transformers...OK, but could you please decide if these robots are supposed to be one story or five stories tall!

And the lessons of course, you can't survive without the lessons. God only knows what kind of world we'd be living in today if He-man didn't remind us to brush our teeth and listen to our parents,. If G.I. Joe hadn't constantly told us that violence is bad and not to do drugs.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

There are very few cartoons from that era that I can stand to watch today, Scooby-doo, Thundarr, and Johnny Quest are about it.

So it was a kind of shock to the system to start seeing something like Star Blazers with an actual plot and continuing storyline, Robotech where characters cheerfully blew away their enemies and characters actually died. Or G-Force (Battle of the Planets) with it's action, crazy weapons, burning plane, and no Wheel of Morality in sight.
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xboxAlex

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, as a kid how watched pokemon and DBZ and has only been watching anime for just over a year now. Why do I think anime and manga got big in the US. Ok well for me in the Uk it had to get big there first or i would have never seen it. I believe there is nothing like it. Outside of japan what has that look. That style. The big eyes, and the hair (orgasm). Razz I think it got big for that reason i don't know a lot as i have not looked into it. I look more into video games but hell. I believe it is because of the Art style alone !
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CrimsonScarletDemon

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

America probably tried to use Anime and Manga as a new way to get money out of the wants of children because they're considered cartoons.
It fails because Anime and Manga fail to gain popularity with children but instead it gains popularity with teenagers. As we all know most Animes have a hint of "Romance" in it. Last time I checked anyone under 10 years of age thinks romance is gross and you'd get cooties if girls kissed you. (more or less touched you)

I could be wrong but that may be the reason.

OR...
Maybe the government is finally using their sense to provide some entertainment for Young Adults besides the stereotypical "Everyone geos to malls".
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nitewing34

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with CrimsonScarletDemon about how anime and manga were considered cartoons. One of the early anime series that was introduced was Dragon Ball Z. In my opinion, I think at the time they were trying draw in more viewers especially teens and/or younger. Now the viewers that watched anime are more diverse there is more of a demand for it.
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bluesharksbite

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anime took off in america for one reason. . . . it's because it is awesome
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Alga Zero

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluesharksbite wrote:
anime took off in america for one reason. . . . it's because it is awesome

agreed!
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xboxAlex

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluesharksbite wrote:
anime took off in america for one reason. . . . it's because it is awesome


I also agree however their is reason behind it. America cartoon's are well not that good. Anime is good and also has a larger fan base. There are some good American cartoons but TBH anime is just miles better.
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Alga Zero

Evangelion is cool



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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xboxAlex wrote:
bluesharksbite wrote:
anime took off in america for one reason. . . . it's because it is awesome


I also agree however their is reason behind it. America cartoon's are well not that good. Anime is good and also has a larger fan base. There are some good American cartoons but TBH anime is just miles better.

granted anime does have its peaks, but lets not forget that there is complete and utter garbage that comes through the medium like Rosario +Vampire. As far as American cartoons go, there are a crapload of solid series, mainly from the 90's: Sonic the Hedgehog, Gargoyles, X-Men, Spider-Man, the Timmverse of DC comics (the Superman and Batman series that were so freaking awesome), ReBoot (I know its CG but it still counts XD it was quite awesome), the Tick, Ren & Stimpy, Beast Wars, Swat Kats, Darkwing Duck, the list goes on and on but those are the series that I'm able to say off the top of my head because they were that awesome. As for anime being better, its an iffy statement. Simply because its all based on personal opinion. I have yet to see something like Batman: The Animated Series (a rather dark tone for a kids show) that pushes boundaries and really challenged the viewer done yet in anime, (I may have missed such a kids anime) but the point is, we may all have our own reasons for liking anime, but they can't really justify the entire fanbase as a whole. There really is no right or wrong answer.
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